One of the biggest bones I have to pick with our local Jesus MegaCenter has very little to do with their toight as a toiger
sturm und drang approach to packin' 'em in. It's not their giant campus with copious parking. It's not the franchise satellite churches that beam the prepackaged message in from the mothership. I don't mind that their senior pastor has taken some smug whacks at my denomination in public speeches. Well, I do kinda mind, but that's not the key sticking point.
What bugs me is their theology. The
"faith statement" that they use for all of their ministries is notable for what it includes and what it prioritizes.
Like most "Bible"churches, the faith priority for
Mclean Bible Church and its affiliated ministries is the Bible. It's right there on the sign, dagnabbit. When you look at the faith statement that lays out what's important to them, it begins with the Bible. It is only
after explaining how important the Bible is that they get around to talking about God.
On the one hand, you can defend this by saying, well, how else would you know about Jesus than by reading the Bible? There's some truth to that. Problem is, placing scripture before God just isn't a very scriptural thing to do. Nowhere in scripture is there any justification for the role it seems to play in their statement, and the scriptural warrants given are weak. It is also absurd...from the perspective of a faithful Christian...to assume that the Bible itself is the starting point of faith. That's the work of the Holy Spirit. Always has been. Always will be. And without the Holy Spirit lighting up the heart of a reader, the Bible has no authority.
That deeply unbiblical Bible-focus surfaces on and off throughout the rest of the faith statement. There's a big section on Satan, in which statements are made about Satan that have at best a tenuous foundation in the Bible. There's a large section on the importance of the Rapture, which is a questionable teaching utterly without point or purpose in the faith life of a Christian, unless that Christian happens to be named "LaHaye," in which case ya gotta think about the residuals from book sales
None of these things are unusual for a nondenominational Bible church. But the focus is on aspects of the faith that are so far from what is truly central and...um...fundamental...as to make the entire package suspect spiritually. Most of the folks attending come because it's so slickly assembled. They come for the programs or the fellowship or to find themselves a mate, and then they find themselves drawn in to an understanding of Christian faith that is at best stunted, and at worst spiritually dangerous.
Comments (52)
Couldn't agree more. The megachurches kind of scare me... they seem to more frequently produce the sort of people who mindlessly quote the Bible (usually to justify their own preconceptions) without seeming to have any actual "feel" for Jesus' teachings, or even really the point of the faith.
I'm not a fan of the megachurch. But I am Reformed Presbyterian, and therefore I am a fan of sola scriptura. I think the difference is placing God at the center, and that we know him through scripture. At least I hope so.
exactly
I'm with ya.
//On the one hand, you can defend this by saying, well, how else would
you know about Jesus than by reading the Bible? There's some truth to
that. //
Not exactly... especially if you're Catholic. (We have that little thing called Oral Tradition which makes the Bible look like a Cliff's Notes in comparison). But true, a lot of what we know about Jesus Himself is in the Bible.
//It is also absurd...from the perspective of a faithful Christian...to
assume that the Bible itself is the starting point of faith. That's
the work of the Holy Spirit. Always has been. Always will be. And
without the Holy Spirit lighting up the heart of a reader, the Bible
has no authority.//
A-men!
Boy I have Lost my head like Marie Antoinette for this MANY MANY times. God is first, the scripture is a Wonderful but IS NOT God...& all of God is not written about in it either.
@QuantumStorm - What Catholic church do you go to? Everything I teach in Catechism is from the scriptures. Everything the other grades teach is also from scripture. Not only that but Mass is all about Scripture. All three of those readings come from the Bible, and then a homely is also based on the reading from the Gospel that day. Preparing for the Eucharist is not really an oral tradition either, they have a special prayer book in front of them.
Very interesting perspective. A rec from me. Interested to see what others have to say about this.
Enjoyed this post. Came by recommendation and will give one as well.
In the beginning, GOD....
I think from their perspective, since "God handing down the Bible to us" (at least that is what one Fundamental friend told me), they believe it's a all in one sort of thing, so they don't feel they are putting anything ahead of God.
I too am of the Reformed tradition, though original Baptist- and I hold to the solas on this matter. I believe that for most (with the exception of those who have a "Damascus" experience) faith comes by hearing and hearing by the Word of God. I agree that the Bible is not above God- but it proceeds from Him and it is revealed to us by the illuminating power of the Holy Spirit. The Bible contains everything we need to know about Him and His plan of salvation. God should be top-most in the heart of the Christian and the most important emphasis of Church doctrine, but we understand God most rightly through the Scriptures.
the bible is a book. full of letters, lyrics, and history but taken out of context even my post could mean something different. i agree with you abou this "Put God first and use his holy spirit to guide you." Why does scripture tell us to TEST the Spirits? yep even small truth can be told in a lie.
@bassangel - The Bible is a product of Oral Tradition. Many of our beliefs and dogmas have more explicit support in Oral Tradition than in Scripture. Granted, everything you may teach from the Catechism is from Scripture, but when did the Catechism act as the cornerstone of our knowledge? There are many other references in the Catechism to Oral Tradition as well as Scripture, and if you think the Catechism is the entirety of our compiled knowledge, you are sorely mistaken.
// Everything the other grades teach is also from scripture.//
Oh, thaaat's right... grade school is somehow more advanced than seminary or theology school :D It's a lot easier to start with the Bible in grade school as it is something that younger students are more familiar with, rather than starting with letters from Clement. :P
// Not only that but Mass is all about Scripture.//
Wrong. Mass is all about the Eucharist. The structure of the Mass as we see today - please find that in the Bible. Of course, we use Scripture in the Mass to teach and for edification, but that does not mean the Mass is all about scripture. The fundamental purpose of the Mass is not to teach Scripture - it is to bring Christ, in the flesh, to His people. That is something that you learn in grade school. :D
//All three of those readings come from the Bible, and then a homely is also based on the reading from the Gospel that day.//
The reason readings exist in the Mass was due to the fact that from a practical standpoint, back in the day, many people were illiterate. Reading (i.e. teaching people ORALLY) in the Mass helped educate people about the gospel and the OT. To help with this, many Churches adopted the popular stained-glass windows, which usually depicted various saints or various events from the Bible. That was also part of the reason why stations of the cross are present in many Churches as well.
//Preparing for the Eucharist is not really an oral tradition either, they have a special prayer book in front of them.//
Where did that special prayer book come from? :P
@bassangel - Not only that, can you show me where the Bible actually came from? :D
Just for kicks -
http://www.scripturecatholic.com/oral_tradition.html
"Problem is, placing scripture before God just isn't a very scriptural thing to do."
Isn't that the truth? As if all of His completely beyond infinite mind is revealed on paper or something.
@QuantumStorm - I never said that the bible did not come from oral tradition. In fact it did. But you specifically claimed that Catholics use Oral tradition over the Bible. Where? Yes Mass is about taking Communion but where do we get that from? The last supper, before Jesus was crucified he broke bread and gave them wine. And where is that? Oh yeah... it is in the Bible.
So where do we specifically in modern times use oral tradition over the Bible which almost every other Church uses some form of it (Whether or not they always get it right)?
Oh and I teach 9th Grade Catechism in preparing for Confirmation. I don't teach elementary or middle school students.
@QuantumStorm - Yeah and everything from there is now in the Bible. Again where do we in modern times use oral tradition over the Bible? At this point almost everyone in the world has the same Bible - maybe translated a little differently.
To say "don't put the Bible ahead of God" is like saying "don't put my blog ahead of me."
It is valid in the sense that my blog does not show all of me, you'll never have a complete picture of me from my blog alone. Â In fact, you'll have a very limited picture of me that way.
On the other hand, most if not all of you will never know anything about me outside of my blog. Â In that sense it's not possible for you to put one ahead of the other because your knowledge of me equals your knowledge of my blog.
The problem with most large religious institutions is not that they put the Bible in front of God, but that they claim to follow only the Bible when in fact they only follow their own agenda and then justify it from the Bible. Â That is not the same thing at all.
Those who truly believe in the God of the Bible and honestly try to serve Him will honor the Bible as His Word - a message from the God they claim to serve. Â You can't really believe one without believing the other. Â It's not possible to obey God while disobeying clear instructions in the Bible. Â But it is possible to obey selected instructions from the Bible without obeying God. Â The Pharisees were pros at that.
Good points.
Jesus left a Church, not a book.
The "book" came out of the living organism--His body!
// Yeah and everything from there is now in the Bible.//
No, it is not. Find me the story of Jannes and Jambres in the Bible. Find me the story of the martyrs being sawed in half in the Bible. Find me the story where Jesus states "It is better to give than to receive" in the Bible. Find me the prophecy of Jesus being a Nazarene in the Bible. Find me the story of how the seat of Moses was used in the Synagogues - in the Bible. How about the story of how the Bible was codified? How about the story of how we knew which books of the Bible were inspired? How about the dogma of the Immaculate Conception? The dogma of Papal Infallibility? The Assumption of Mary? Teachings on the Trinity? The Hypostatic Union of Christ, in which He is both fully human and fully divine?
If you're going to tell me Oral Tradition is BS, you are essentially pointing out that the Church's Deposit of Faith is partly invalid. Please demonstrate why you think the Church's Deposit of Faith is not up to par.
You ought to be able to demonstrate that all of our faith stems from the Bible - by using the Bible. (Not surprisingly, this is the same tactic that sola scriptura protestants use to try to back up their view that the Church is unecessary and the Bible alone is what matters).
@bassangel - //But you specifically claimed that Catholics use Oral tradition over the
Bible. Where? Yes Mass is about taking Communion but where do we get
that from? The last supper, before Jesus was crucified he broke bread
and gave them wine. And where is that?//
So are you going to tell me that before the Bible was codified, people didn't celebrate Mass? Ridiculous.
//Oh and I teach 9th Grade Catechism in preparing for Confirmation. I don't teach elementary or middle school students.//
Then you have less of an excuse to ignore the Oral Tradition origins of the Mass and the Bible if you teach high school GRADE students.
@StumblingOx - Amen!
@bassangel - Just to avoid confusion... I'm not saying that Oral Tradition is somehow more valid than the Bible. It's just a fact that the Bible, and a lot of what we know about Catholicism, is primarily from Oral Tradition. The Mass as we practice it now is not based on scripture, but rather based on Oral Tradition and the passing down of the celebration of the Mass. The Bible wasn't codified for a good two centuries, perhaps three. In that time period, I can guarantee that people celebrated the Mass - without a Bible.